Mazar-e-Sharif?

[Baktash]

According to some myth, it is believed that Hazrat Ali (May Allah be pleased with him) is buried in Mazar, the capital city of Northern Afghan province of Balkh. Hence the name "Mazar e Sharif". It is interesting that there is a huge shrine in Najaf, Iraq. Many Iraqis believe that Ali ibn Abu Talib is buried there.

The Mazar-e-Sharif claim is based on a dream that one local mullah had and told the ruler of the time about it. And then they built a shrine there. But regardless of where Hadhrat Ali is buried, there is no need to build a shrine or all the things associated with it.

Thousands of people either knowingly or unknowingly commit shirk by visiting these shrines and asking things from the dead person buried there. People have unknowingly mixed pagan traditions with Islam.

In Islam, we are supposed to ONLY ask Allah for anything. We can not even asked from the Prophet peace Be Upon Him. The Prophet PBUH taught us to worship Allah ONLY. There is NO need to go to shrines, graves, "ziarat", "peer baba" etc with the intention that if you go to them Allah will help you because of them. That is totally not Islamic and even a huge sin. Because you are partnering someone or something else with Allah.

It is ok to visit graves and pray for the people who are buried in those graves. (not ask them to help you). However if you pray for someone on their grave or from your home, it makes no difference. Allah can hear you anywhere. Also once a person dies, he or she has no connection with this World. So no matter how much you cry, beg or scream they are not going to hear you or be able to do anything for you. Even living people can not do anything for you. ONLY Allah is our Lord. And we ONLY ask Him to help us and save us.

So the shrine in Mazar should be demolished so people do not unknowingly commit shirk. If there is someone buried there indeed, it should be just a normal grave even if Hazrat Ali (May Allah be pleased with him) is buried there. There is no where in Islam that we should build shrines at the burial site of our Prophet PBUH or his companions. Human and Jinn Satans are working hard and trying their best to get Muslims to change their pure religion and mix pagan traditions with it. It is our job to inform other Muslims about the real Islam.

[Sulayman]

Yeah, why don't we just destroy all mausoleums... :rolleyes:

Bro, I think teaching people is a better solution. That way, we can preserve our history and be good Muslims.

[Shareef]

I have a huge poster of Sakhi Jan (the masjid at Mazar-e Sharif) in front of my desk at work. There are human beings and about a thousand white pigeons in the picture.

Am I committing shirk by looking at it?

Mmmmmm...

[Baktash]

Yeah, why don't we just destroy all mausoleums... :rolleyes:

Bro, I think teaching people is a better solution. That way, we can preserve our history and be good Muslims.

These "zayarat" or shrines are different from mausoleums. I guess you have not been to "Raowza" in Mazar. People from far away places come there, kiss the stones, beg the grave to help them. Some even do (sajdah) prostration towards the grave. :wacko:

[Sulayman]

So destroying it is the solution? Not teaching?

:huh:

[Baktash]

So destroying it is the solution? Not teaching?

:huh:

well, no where in Islam we are taught that we are supposed to build huge shrines for the Prophet PBUH or his companions. So it should be demolished and also people should be taught about it.

Hundreds of the companions of the Prophet PBUH are buried in Saudi Arabia. And you wont find such shrines there. Most of the graves are so normal that in some cases we dont even know who is buried where. And that's how it is supposed to be.

[Toxic]

But... you can ask from god by saying "BA BARAKATEY HAZRAT ALI(bless his soul).

[Sulayman]

well, no where in Islam we are taught that we are supposed to build huge shrines for the Prophet PBUH or his companions. So it should be demolished and also people should be taught about it.

Hundreds of the companions of the Prophet PBUH are buried in Saudi Arabia. And you wont find such shrines there. Most of the graves are so normal that in some cases we dont even know who is buried where. And that's how it is supposed to be.

Do you propose the demolition of just the shrine of Mazar-e Shareef or all shrines? There shouldn't be a distinction, according to your logic (not saying I agree, though).

[Toxic]

I don't think they should be demolished. Teaching people is the best way....

[OhMyGod!]

Theres no reason a place with such historical significance needs to be demolished. Our retarded e-buddy Sulayman is right (for once :rolleyes: )

To remove that problem, education is a better option because there are many zeyarats across Afghanistan

[farikhtay]

Tawassul Clarified

Tawassul and Waseelah literally means to make a request or supplicate
through a means. It is permissible for one to request Allah Ta'ala to
accept his du'aa through the medium of some deeds or the rank of
certain individuals as this may be closer to acceptance.

There are various forms of Tawassul and Waseela:

1. To make Tawassul to Almighty Allah that He accepts the Du'aa due
to one having performed a certain good deed is permissible and
unanimously accepted. It is supported by the Hadith of Sahih Bukhari
in which three people were trapped in a cave. Each of them made Du'aa
to Allah Ta'ala to move the obstructing rock and they requested Allah
Ta'ala to accept their du'aas due to some good deed that each of them
had done.

2. To make Tawassul with the names and attributes of Almighty Allah:
This is also permissible and is supported by the following
verse, `And Allah has beautiful names, so call unto Him through
them.' (Surah A'araaf v.180). Example: If someone says, `Oh Allah, I
ask you through your attributes and beautiful names to grant my
specific wish.'

3. To make Tawassul to Allah Ta'ala through the rank and position of
certain individuals, alive or deceased, in the sight of Almighty
Allah This includes the Prophets [alayhimus salaam], the martyrs and
any other pious servant of Allah. Example: If one says, `Oh Allah, I
beseech you to accept my du'aa due to the status of Rasulullah
[Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] in Your eyes.' This form of Tawassul is
also permissible according to the vast majority of the Ulama
(scholars) and it has in fact remained part of their practise.

4. Some scholars even mention a fourth type of Tawassul, where a
person requests some living pious servant of Allah to make du'aa for
him: This is also unanimously accepted.

The only type of Tawassul that is disputed is number3, where one
makes Tawassul through individuals that are alive or deceased by
saying, `O Allah, I besech you to accept my Du'aa due to the status
that Rasulullah [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] (or some other pious
person) hold in Your eyes.' The first opposition against this form of
Tawassul was in the 7th century of Islam. (shifaa-u-siqaam)

There are numerous proofs that support the permissibility of Tawassul
through individuals. The following are some substantiations:

1. Sayyiduna Uthmaan ibn Hunayf [radhiallaahu anhu] narrates that
once a blind person came to Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]
and said, `Oh Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]! Ask Allah to
cure me.' Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] replied, `If you
wish I will make Du'aa or else you may be patient and this is better
for you.' The man said, `Make Du'aa instead', Rasulullah [sallallaahu
alayhi wasallam] then commanded him to make Wudhu properly and that
he recites the following Du'aa, `Oh Allah, verily, I ask of you and I
turn to you through your prophet, the prophet of mercy, O Muhammad
[sallallaahu alayhi wasallam], verily, I have turned to my Lord
through you so that my need be fulfilled. Oh Allah, accept his
intercession on my behalf.' (Musnad Ahmad vol.4 pg.138; Sunan
Tirmidhi; Sunan ibn Majah; Mustadrak Haakim and others). Imaams
Tirmidhi, ibn Khuzaymah and Haakim have classified this Hadith as
authentic. The words, `I turn to you through your prophet' clearly
proves Tawassul through the position of a person. Rasulullah
[sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] also told him that he should make the
same supplication whenever he needed to. (al-Raddul Muhkamul Mateen
pg.145)

2. Sayyiduna Uthmaan ibn Hunayf [radhiallaahu anhu] taught this du'aa
to someone after the demise of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi
wasallam]. That person's need was also fulfilled.

Abu Umaamah ibn Sahl ibn Hunayf [radhiallaahu anhu] reports that a
person requested Sayyiduna Uthmaan ibn Affaan [radhiallaahu anhu] to
fulfil his need. Sayyiduna Uthmaan [radhiallaahu anhu] did not attend
to him. The person complained to Sayyiduna Uthmaan ibn Hunayf
[radhiallaahu anhu] about his plight. Sayyiduna Uthmaan ibn Hunayf
[radhiallaahu anhu] told him to make Wudhu, go to the Musjid, offer 2
Rakaats of Salaat and recite the following Du'aa: `O Allah, verily I
ask you and I turn to you through our prophet, the prophet of mercy
(Rasulullah – sallallaahu alayhi wasallam). O Muhammad! Verily, I
have turned to our Lord through you so that He may fulfil my need.'

The person then went to Sayyiduna Uthmaan ibn Affaan [radhiallahu
anhu] who then [radhiallaahu anhu] immediately fulfilled his need and
told him to return whenever he had any need in the future. (al-
Mu'jamus sagheer vol.1 pg.184; al-Mu'jamul Kabeer vol.9 pg.17;
Dalaailun-nubuwwah of Imaam Bayhaqi vol.6 pg.167-168)

Imaam Tabrani has mentioned that this Hadith is authentic. (al-
Mu'jamus sagheer vol.1 pg.184). Allamah Mahmood Zaahid Al- Kawthari
has also classified the chains of Baihaqi to be Saheeh (authentic).
(Maqaalatul-Kawthari pg.391). For a detailed analysis refer to al-
Raddul Muhkamul Mateen of Shaykh Abdullah Siddique al-Ghumarie
pgs.141-157; Raf'ul Manaarah of Shaykh Mahmood Sa'eed Mamdooh pgs.125-
131

3. Sayyiduna Anas ibn Maalik [radhiallaahu anhu] reports that when
the mother of Sayyiduna Ali [radhiallahu anhu] passed away (Faatima
bint Asad – radhiallaahu anha], Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi
wasallam] made the following Du'aa before burying her: `O Allah, The
One who gives life and death, and Who is living and will never die,
forgive my mother Faatima bint Asad [radhiallaahu anha], and make her
arguments known to her, i.e. make the answering of Munkar and Nakeer
easy, and make her grave spacious for her. (I ask you) through the
right of your prophet and all the prophet's before me, for verily You
are Most Merciful.' (al-Mu'jamul awsat vol.1 pg.152; Hilya vol.3
pg.121)

`Bi haqqi nabiyyika' (through the right of your prophet). This
narration is classified as authentic according to the standards of
Imaam ibn Hibbaan and Haakim. (Raf'ul Manaarah pg.147; Maqaalaatul
Kawthari). Haafiz Ibn Hajar Al-Haytami(RA) that its chain of
narrators is good.(Refer to his footnotes on Al-Manaasik of Imaam
Nawawi(RA) pg.500…)

4. When a person leaves the Musjid, the following du'aa is
recorded, `Allaahumma inniy as-aluka bi haqqis-saa-ileena alayka, wa
bi haqqi mamshaaya haaza…'. (Translation: Oh Allah, I ask you through
the right of those who ask you and through the right of the act of my
walking…)

In this narration, Tawassul through people is established, `…through
the right of those who ask' and Tawassul through one's deeds is
supported by the second part. This Hadith is recorded in Sunan ibn
Maajah, Musnad Ahmad (vol.3 pg.21), Musannaf ibn Abi Shaybah and
others. The following Muhadditheen have regarded it as authentic:
Imaam ibn Khuzaymah (Kitaab Tawheed pg.17), Hafiz Abdul-Ghani al-
Maqdisi (al-Naseehah), Hafiz Abul-Hasan al-Maqdisi – teacher of
Allaamah Munzhiri (refer al-Targheeb vol.3 pg.273), Allamah al-Iraqi –
Ustaadh of Hafiz ibn Hajar (Takhrijul Ihyaa), Hafiz ibn Hajar al-
Asqalaani (Nataa-ijul Afkaar vol.1 pg.272), Hafiz Dimyati (Al-
Matjarur-raabih). These are six great Muhadditheen that have accepted
this Hadith to be authentic, hence, there remains no doubt at all
concerning its acceptability.

The following two proofs illustrate to us the practise of the Sahaaba
[radhiallaahu anhum] as well.

5. Sayyiduna Maalik al-Daar, the treasurer of food during the time of
Sayyiduna Umar ibn al-Khattaab [radhiallaahu anhu], reports that once
the people had been experiencing a drought in the era of Sayyiduna
Umar [radhiallaahu anhu], a man went to the grave of Rasulullah
[sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] and said, `O Rasulullah [sallallaahu
alayhi wasallam], ask for rain on behalf of your Ummah, for verily,
they are being destroyed.' Thereafter this person was instructed in a
dream to go to Sayyiduna Umar [radhiallaahu anhu] and tell him
that, `the rains will soon come and say to him, Be intelligent', When
Umar [radhiallaahu anhu] was informed of this, he began to cry and he
said, `O My Lord, I will only leave out what I am unable to do.'
(Musannaf ibn Abi Shaybah vol.12 pg.31-32; Dalaailun-nubuwwah of
Imaam Bayhaqi vol.7 pg.47). Hafiz ibn Katheer [ra] has stated that
the chain of narrators is `good and strong' (Musnadul Faarooq vol.1
pg.223). Hafiz ibn Hajar has also indicated to its authenticity in
Fathul Bari.

6. Abul-Jawzaa – Aws ibn Abdullah [radhiallaahu anhu] reports that
once, the people of Madinah were experiencing a severe drought. They
complained to Sayyidatuna Aaisha [radhiallahu anha]. She advised them
that they should make a hole in the tomb of the roof of Rasulullah
[sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] so that the grave is exposed to the
skies. He says, `When they made a hole, heavy rains came down and
crops also began to grow.' (Sunan Darimi vol.1 pg.56)

7. Imaam Haakim and others have narrated on the authority of
Sayyiduna Umar ibn al-Khattaab [radhiallaahu anhu] that Rasulullah
[Sallallahu alayhi wasallam] said, `When Adam [alayhis salaam] ate
from the forbidden tree, he said, `O My Lord, I ask you through the
right of Muhammad [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] that you forgive me.'
The words used were, `Bi haqqi Muhammad' Allah Ta'ala accepted
Aadam's [alayhis salaam] repentance. (al-Mustadrak vol.2 pg.615;
Dalaailun-Nubuwwah of Imaam Bayhaqi vol.5 pg.489; al-Mu'jamus saghir
of Imaam Tabrani vol.2 pg.82)

The status of this narration has been extensively disputed by the
various Muhadditheen. Some have accepted it to be authentic and
others rejected it. However, there is another narration that supports
this narration recorded by Imaam Abul-Hasan ibn Bishraan [ra] on the
authority of Sayyidatuna Maysarah [radhiallaahu anha]. The chain of
narrators for this Hadith is totally different from the previous one.
And in fact, Hafiz ibn Hajar [ra] has stated concerning a completely
different narration which has the very same chain of narrators, that
this chain of narrators is strong. (al-Raddul Muhkamul Mateen pgs.138-
139; al-Ahaadeethul Muntaqaa pg.14, both of Shaykh Abdullah Siddique
al-Ghumarie). These narrations have all proven beyond a shadow of
doubt that this form of Tawassul is permissible and was widely
practised as well.

Hereunder follows a list of some of the many illustrious Ulama of the
past who had practised upon Tawassul through the rank of the pious,
deceased or alive:

1. Imaam Hasan ibn Ibrahim al-Hallal [ra] has stated that whenever he
had any urgent need, he would go to the grave of Imaam Moosa ibn
Ja'far [ra] and make Tawassul through him. Allah Ta'ala would fulfil
his need. (refer Taarikh Baghdaad)

2. Imaam Shaafi'ee [ra] would make Tawassul at the grave of Imaam Abu
Hanifa [ra]. (Taarikh Baghdaad). Allaamah al-Kawthari has classified
this incident as authentic. (Maqaalaatul Kawthari pg.381)

3. Allaamah Taajuddeen al-Subki [ra] has mentioned that the people
would go to the grave of Imaam ibn Foorak(ra), the teacher of Imaam
Bayhaqi [ra] and make Du'aa and their Du'aas would get accepted.

4. Hafiz Al-Zarkashi [ra] has made Tawassul in the introduction to
his commentary to Sahih al-Bukhari entitled, `al-Tanqeeh'.

5. Hafiz Taqi-u-ddin al-Subki [ra], the father of Taajuddin al-Subki
[ra], has approved of this firm of Tawassul and he has written a
detailed treatise on this topic. (See his book: Shifaa-u-Siqaam
pgs.293-318)

6. Allamah Nawawi [ra] has mentioned that from among the etiquettes
of visiting the grave of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] one
should make Tawassul through Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]
to Allah Ta'ala to accept his Du'aas. Thereafter, Allamah Nawawi
states, `…and one of the best things that one should do is what has
been related by Allaamah al-Mawardi [ra], al-Qaadhi Abu Teeb [ra] and
all our Ulama and they have all regarded it as commendable, and that
is the incident of Imaam al-Utabi [ra] that he said, `I was once
seated by the grave of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam], when
a Bedouin came and said, `Peace be upon you, oh, Messenger of Allah.
O Messenger of Allah, I have heard Almighty Allah say in the
Qur'aan "And if they, when they had been unjust to themselves, had
come to you (Muhammad Sallallahu alayhi wasallam) and begged Allah's
forgiveness and the messenger had begged forgiveness for them, indeed
they would have found Allah All-Forgiving. Most merciful.(Al-
Nisaa:64) hence, I have come to you in a state that I seek
forgiveness of my sins by seeking your intercession by my Lord',
thereafter he recited a few couplets and departed. Imaam al-Utabi
[ra] states, `I then fell asleep and I saw Rasulullah [sallallahu
alayhi wasallam] instructing me by the words, `O Utabi, go to that
Bedouin and give him the glad tidings that Almighty Allah has
forgiven him.' (Refer al-Majmoo vol.8 pg.456 – Cairo and Manaasikul-
Imaam-Al-Nawawi pg.498-499 Maktabah Salafia). This incident has been
related by many Ulama in their respective compilations. Some of them
are: Haafiz Ibn-Katheer in his Tafseer, Allamah Abu-Muhammad ibn
Qudaamah in Al-Mughni vol.3 pg.556, Imaam Abul-Faraj in Al-Sharhul-
Kabeervol.3 pg.495, etc.)

7. Imaam Ahmad bin Hambal(RA) has also encouraged making Tawassul
through Rasulullah [sallallahu alayhi wasallam] in ones duas.
(Fataawa ibn Taimiyyah vol.1 pg.140, Also see Mafaaheem pg.137)

8. Haafiz Shamsud-Deen Al-Sakhawi (RA), the grand student of Haafiz
ibn Hajr Al-Asqalaani(RA) made Tawassul on many occasions through
Rasulullah [Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam] in his books, see for example
Al-Tuhfatul-Lateefah vol.1 pg.3, 17; al-Ibtihaaj bi azkaaril
musaafiril haaj

9. Allamah Muhammad ibn-ul-Jazri(RA) the famous Muhaddith and Master
of Qira'aat has mentioned that from amongst the Aadaab etiquettes of
dua is that one makes Tawassul with the Ambiyaa and the pious ones.
(Al-Hisnul Haseen)

10. Imaam Al-Shawkaani Al-Salafi(RA) has also permitted Tawassul.
(Tuhfatu-Zaakireen pg.50)

These are ten Different types of Ulama (i.e. some are Fuqahaa, some
Muhadditheen and some are Qurraa). All have either practised on
Tawassul or at least permitted it. And the list could go on….(refer
to Maqaalatul Kawthari pg.378-397). After contemplating on all that
was mentioned above, any person with sound intelligence would believe
without a shadow of doubt in the permissibility of this form of
Tawassul.

More so when one realizes that this remained the practise of the
Ummah for centuries. Allamah Taqee-ud-Deen Al-Subki(RA) and other
Muhadditheen have stated that Haafiz Ibn-Taimiyyah(RA) – who passed
away in the year 728 Hijri - was the first to refute the
permissibility of this form of Tawassul (Shifaa-us-Siqaam pg.293) In
fact, Abu-Abdillah Al-Tilmisani Al-Maaliki(RA) (a renown scholar of
the 7th century) has written a book concerning how this remained the
practise of the entire Ummah since its existence. (Refer Maqaalatul
Kawthari pg.397)

Lastly, we would like to draw your attention to the fact that the
above permissibility is in regard to one who asks Allah Ta'ala for a
particular need and in doing so, he uses some honourable personality
as his Waseela (means) without thinking or believing that the person
is being supplicated to or that he will fulfil his need. Yes, if one
asks directly from the deceased and he believes that the Anbiyaa
[alayhimus salaam] and the pious [rahimahumullah] independently
possess the power to provide, then this would be Shirk (polytheism)
because he is now ascribing partners to Allah in the quality
of `Providing'.

Many contemporaries have mixed both these forms up; a) asking
directly from the deceased and, b) asking Allah Alone, through the
medium of some deceased) and have passed one ruling of Shirk for both
forms. This is clearly a gross oversight on their path.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Ml. Muhammad ibn Moulana Haroon Abasoomar
FACULTY OF SPECIALTY IN HADITH SCIENCES

[farikhtay]

I believe that the true grave of Imam Ali (kw) is in Najaf, Iraq.

[Sulayman]

Theres no reason a place with such historical significance needs to be demolished. Our ******** e-buddy Sulayman is right (for once :rolleyes: )

To remove that problem, education is a better option because there are many zeyarats across Australia

What did I tell you? Save your annoying comments for the other site. There was no need.

[Elixir]

So the shrine in Mazar should be demolished so people do not unknowingly commit shirk.


Stop!
Just stop talking, please.

[Mr. Perfect]

Baktash
u just cant say the shrine should be demolished
what do u mean
thousand of people commit shrik every day ???? are they mad to go there for shirk
so if i agree with u it should be 1 vs 1000

["Afghan_girl"]

baktash jan ur right that we can only ask ALLAH for anything not anyone else
but the people who go there they just make HAZRAT IMAM ALI waseta for Allah
like they bealive that we siiner and IMAM ALI was a great person who didnt make any sin or HAZRAT MUHAMMAD (PBUH) was not sinner so we make them waseta AND ASK Allah THAT FORGIVE ME BAROYE MUBARAK HAZRATS .
IM A SINNER BUT THEY R VERY CLOSE TO U SO BECOZ OF THEM BECOZ OF THE LOVE THAT U HAVE FOR THEM GIVE ME WHAT I WANT

[Baktash]

Tawassul Clarified

Tawassul and Waseelah literally means to make a request or supplicate
through a means. It is permissible for one to request Allah Ta'ala to
accept his du'aa through the medium of some deeds or the rank of
certain individuals as this may be closer to acceptance.

There are various forms of Tawassul and Waseela:

1. To make Tawassul to Almighty Allah that He accepts the Du'aa due
to one having performed a certain good deed is permissible and
unanimously accepted. It is supported by the Hadith of Sahih Bukhari
in which three people were trapped in a cave. Each of them made Du'aa
to Allah Ta'ala to move the obstructing rock and they requested Allah
Ta'ala to accept their du'aas due to some good deed that each of them
had done.

2. To make Tawassul with the names and attributes of Almighty Allah:
This is also permissible and is supported by the following
verse, `And Allah has beautiful names, so call unto Him through
them.' (Surah A'araaf v.180). Example: If someone says, `Oh Allah, I
ask you through your attributes and beautiful names to grant my
specific wish.'

3. To make Tawassul to Allah Ta'ala through the rank and position of
certain individuals, alive or deceased, in the sight of Almighty
Allah This includes the Prophets [alayhimus salaam], the martyrs and
any other pious servant of Allah. Example: If one says, `Oh Allah, I
beseech you to accept my du'aa due to the status of Rasulullah
[Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] in Your eyes.' This form of Tawassul is
also permissible according to the vast majority of the Ulama
(scholars) and it has in fact remained part of their practise.

4. Some scholars even mention a fourth type of Tawassul, where a
person requests some living pious servant of Allah to make du'aa for
him: This is also unanimously accepted.

The only type of Tawassul that is disputed is number3, where one
makes Tawassul through individuals that are alive or deceased by
saying, `O Allah, I besech you to accept my Du'aa due to the status
that Rasulullah [Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam] (or some other pious
person) hold in Your eyes.' The first opposition against this form of
Tawassul was in the 7th century of Islam. (shifaa-u-siqaam)

There are numerous proofs that support the permissibility of Tawassul
through individuals. The following are some substantiations:

1. Sayyiduna Uthmaan ibn Hunayf [radhiallaahu anhu] narrates that
once a blind person came to Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]
and said, `Oh Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]! Ask Allah to
cure me.' Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] replied, `If you
wish I will make Du'aa or else you may be patient and this is better
for you.' The man said, `Make Du'aa instead', Rasulullah [sallallaahu
alayhi wasallam] then commanded him to make Wudhu properly and that
he recites the following Du'aa, `Oh Allah, verily, I ask of you and I
turn to you through your prophet, the prophet of mercy, O Muhammad
[sallallaahu alayhi wasallam], verily, I have turned to my Lord
through you so that my need be fulfilled. Oh Allah, accept his
intercession on my behalf.' (Musnad Ahmad vol.4 pg.138; Sunan
Tirmidhi; Sunan ibn Majah; Mustadrak Haakim and others). Imaams
Tirmidhi, ibn Khuzaymah and Haakim have classified this Hadith as
authentic. The words, `I turn to you through your prophet' clearly
proves Tawassul through the position of a person. Rasulullah
[sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] also told him that he should make the
same supplication whenever he needed to. (al-Raddul Muhkamul Mateen
pg.145)

2. Sayyiduna Uthmaan ibn Hunayf [radhiallaahu anhu] taught this du'aa
to someone after the demise of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi
wasallam]. That person's need was also fulfilled.

Abu Umaamah ibn Sahl ibn Hunayf [radhiallaahu anhu] reports that a
person requested Sayyiduna Uthmaan ibn Affaan [radhiallaahu anhu] to
fulfil his need. Sayyiduna Uthmaan [radhiallaahu anhu] did not attend
to him. The person complained to Sayyiduna Uthmaan ibn Hunayf
[radhiallaahu anhu] about his plight. Sayyiduna Uthmaan ibn Hunayf
[radhiallaahu anhu] told him to make Wudhu, go to the Musjid, offer 2
Rakaats of Salaat and recite the following Du'aa: `O Allah, verily I
ask you and I turn to you through our prophet, the prophet of mercy
(Rasulullah – sallallaahu alayhi wasallam). O Muhammad! Verily, I
have turned to our Lord through you so that He may fulfil my need.'

The person then went to Sayyiduna Uthmaan ibn Affaan [radhiallahu
anhu] who then [radhiallaahu anhu] immediately fulfilled his need and
told him to return whenever he had any need in the future. (al-
Mu'jamus sagheer vol.1 pg.184; al-Mu'jamul Kabeer vol.9 pg.17;
Dalaailun-nubuwwah of Imaam Bayhaqi vol.6 pg.167-168)

Imaam Tabrani has mentioned that this Hadith is authentic. (al-
Mu'jamus sagheer vol.1 pg.184). Allamah Mahmood Zaahid Al- Kawthari
has also classified the chains of Baihaqi to be Saheeh (authentic).
(Maqaalatul-Kawthari pg.391). For a detailed analysis refer to al-
Raddul Muhkamul Mateen of Shaykh Abdullah Siddique al-Ghumarie
pgs.141-157; Raf'ul Manaarah of Shaykh Mahmood Sa'eed Mamdooh pgs.125-
131

3. Sayyiduna Anas ibn Maalik [radhiallaahu anhu] reports that when
the mother of Sayyiduna Ali [radhiallahu anhu] passed away (Faatima
bint Asad – radhiallaahu anha], Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi
wasallam] made the following Du'aa before burying her: `O Allah, The
One who gives life and death, and Who is living and will never die,
forgive my mother Faatima bint Asad [radhiallaahu anha], and make her
arguments known to her, i.e. make the answering of Munkar and Nakeer
easy, and make her grave spacious for her. (I ask you) through the
right of your prophet and all the prophet's before me, for verily You
are Most Merciful.' (al-Mu'jamul awsat vol.1 pg.152; Hilya vol.3
pg.121)

`Bi haqqi nabiyyika' (through the right of your prophet). This
narration is classified as authentic according to the standards of
Imaam ibn Hibbaan and Haakim. (Raf'ul Manaarah pg.147; Maqaalaatul
Kawthari). Haafiz Ibn Hajar Al-Haytami(RA) that its chain of
narrators is good.(Refer to his footnotes on Al-Manaasik of Imaam
Nawawi(RA) pg.500…)

4. When a person leaves the Musjid, the following du'aa is
recorded, `Allaahumma inniy as-aluka bi haqqis-saa-ileena alayka, wa
bi haqqi mamshaaya haaza…'. (Translation: Oh Allah, I ask you through
the right of those who ask you and through the right of the act of my
walking…)

In this narration, Tawassul through people is established, `…through
the right of those who ask' and Tawassul through one's deeds is
supported by the second part. This Hadith is recorded in Sunan ibn
Maajah, Musnad Ahmad (vol.3 pg.21), Musannaf ibn Abi Shaybah and
others. The following Muhadditheen have regarded it as authentic:
Imaam ibn Khuzaymah (Kitaab Tawheed pg.17), Hafiz Abdul-Ghani al-
Maqdisi (al-Naseehah), Hafiz Abul-Hasan al-Maqdisi – teacher of
Allaamah Munzhiri (refer al-Targheeb vol.3 pg.273), Allamah al-Iraqi –
Ustaadh of Hafiz ibn Hajar (Takhrijul Ihyaa), Hafiz ibn Hajar al-
Asqalaani (Nataa-ijul Afkaar vol.1 pg.272), Hafiz Dimyati (Al-
Matjarur-raabih). These are six great Muhadditheen that have accepted
this Hadith to be authentic, hence, there remains no doubt at all
concerning its acceptability.

The following two proofs illustrate to us the practise of the Sahaaba
[radhiallaahu anhum] as well.

5. Sayyiduna Maalik al-Daar, the treasurer of food during the time of
Sayyiduna Umar ibn al-Khattaab [radhiallaahu anhu], reports that once
the people had been experiencing a drought in the era of Sayyiduna
Umar [radhiallaahu anhu], a man went to the grave of Rasulullah
[sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] and said, `O Rasulullah [sallallaahu
alayhi wasallam], ask for rain on behalf of your Ummah, for verily,
they are being destroyed.' Thereafter this person was instructed in a
dream to go to Sayyiduna Umar [radhiallaahu anhu] and tell him
that, `the rains will soon come and say to him, Be intelligent', When
Umar [radhiallaahu anhu] was informed of this, he began to cry and he
said, `O My Lord, I will only leave out what I am unable to do.'
(Musannaf ibn Abi Shaybah vol.12 pg.31-32; Dalaailun-nubuwwah of
Imaam Bayhaqi vol.7 pg.47). Hafiz ibn Katheer [ra] has stated that
the chain of narrators is `good and strong' (Musnadul Faarooq vol.1
pg.223). Hafiz ibn Hajar has also indicated to its authenticity in
Fathul Bari.

6. Abul-Jawzaa – Aws ibn Abdullah [radhiallaahu anhu] reports that
once, the people of Madinah were experiencing a severe drought. They
complained to Sayyidatuna Aaisha [radhiallahu anha]. She advised them
that they should make a hole in the tomb of the roof of Rasulullah
[sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] so that the grave is exposed to the
skies. He says, `When they made a hole, heavy rains came down and
crops also began to grow.' (Sunan Darimi vol.1 pg.56)

7. Imaam Haakim and others have narrated on the authority of
Sayyiduna Umar ibn al-Khattaab [radhiallaahu anhu] that Rasulullah
[Sallallahu alayhi wasallam] said, `When Adam [alayhis salaam] ate
from the forbidden tree, he said, `O My Lord, I ask you through the
right of Muhammad [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] that you forgive me.'
The words used were, `Bi haqqi Muhammad' Allah Ta'ala accepted
Aadam's [alayhis salaam] repentance. (al-Mustadrak vol.2 pg.615;
Dalaailun-Nubuwwah of Imaam Bayhaqi vol.5 pg.489; al-Mu'jamus saghir
of Imaam Tabrani vol.2 pg.82)

The status of this narration has been extensively disputed by the
various Muhadditheen. Some have accepted it to be authentic and
others rejected it. However, there is another narration that supports
this narration recorded by Imaam Abul-Hasan ibn Bishraan [ra] on the
authority of Sayyidatuna Maysarah [radhiallaahu anha]. The chain of
narrators for this Hadith is totally different from the previous one.
And in fact, Hafiz ibn Hajar [ra] has stated concerning a completely
different narration which has the very same chain of narrators, that
this chain of narrators is strong. (al-Raddul Muhkamul Mateen pgs.138-
139; al-Ahaadeethul Muntaqaa pg.14, both of Shaykh Abdullah Siddique
al-Ghumarie). These narrations have all proven beyond a shadow of
doubt that this form of Tawassul is permissible and was widely
practised as well.

Hereunder follows a list of some of the many illustrious Ulama of the
past who had practised upon Tawassul through the rank of the pious,
deceased or alive:

1. Imaam Hasan ibn Ibrahim al-Hallal [ra] has stated that whenever he
had any urgent need, he would go to the grave of Imaam Moosa ibn
Ja'far [ra] and make Tawassul through him. Allah Ta'ala would fulfil
his need. (refer Taarikh Baghdaad)

2. Imaam Shaafi'ee [ra] would make Tawassul at the grave of Imaam Abu
Hanifa [ra]. (Taarikh Baghdaad). Allaamah al-Kawthari has classified
this incident as authentic. (Maqaalaatul Kawthari pg.381)

3. Allaamah Taajuddeen al-Subki [ra] has mentioned that the people
would go to the grave of Imaam ibn Foorak(ra), the teacher of Imaam
Bayhaqi [ra] and make Du'aa and their Du'aas would get accepted.

4. Hafiz Al-Zarkashi [ra] has made Tawassul in the introduction to
his commentary to Sahih al-Bukhari entitled, `al-Tanqeeh'.

5. Hafiz Taqi-u-ddin al-Subki [ra], the father of Taajuddin al-Subki
[ra], has approved of this firm of Tawassul and he has written a
detailed treatise on this topic. (See his book: Shifaa-u-Siqaam
pgs.293-318)

6. Allamah Nawawi [ra] has mentioned that from among the etiquettes
of visiting the grave of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam] one
should make Tawassul through Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam]
to Allah Ta'ala to accept his Du'aas. Thereafter, Allamah Nawawi
states, `…and one of the best things that one should do is what has
been related by Allaamah al-Mawardi [ra], al-Qaadhi Abu Teeb [ra] and
all our Ulama and they have all regarded it as commendable, and that
is the incident of Imaam al-Utabi [ra] that he said, `I was once
seated by the grave of Rasulullah [sallallaahu alayhi wasallam], when
a Bedouin came and said, `Peace be upon you, oh, Messenger of Allah.
O Messenger of Allah, I have heard Almighty Allah say in the
Qur'aan "And if they, when they had been unjust to themselves, had
come to you (Muhammad Sallallahu alayhi wasallam) and begged Allah's
forgiveness and the messenger had begged forgiveness for them, indeed
they would have found Allah All-Forgiving. Most merciful.(Al-
Nisaa:64) hence, I have come to you in a state that I seek
forgiveness of my sins by seeking your intercession by my Lord',
thereafter he recited a few couplets and departed. Imaam al-Utabi
[ra] states, `I then fell asleep and I saw Rasulullah [sallallahu
alayhi wasallam] instructing me by the words, `O Utabi, go to that
Bedouin and give him the glad tidings that Almighty Allah has
forgiven him.' (Refer al-Majmoo vol.8 pg.456 – Cairo and Manaasikul-
Imaam-Al-Nawawi pg.498-499 Maktabah Salafia). This incident has been
related by many Ulama in their respective compilations. Some of them
are: Haafiz Ibn-Katheer in his Tafseer, Allamah Abu-Muhammad ibn
Qudaamah in Al-Mughni vol.3 pg.556, Imaam Abul-Faraj in Al-Sharhul-
Kabeervol.3 pg.495, etc.)

7. Imaam Ahmad bin Hambal(RA) has also encouraged making Tawassul
through Rasulullah [sallallahu alayhi wasallam] in ones duas.
(Fataawa ibn Taimiyyah vol.1 pg.140, Also see Mafaaheem pg.137)

8. Haafiz Shamsud-Deen Al-Sakhawi (RA), the grand student of Haafiz
ibn Hajr Al-Asqalaani(RA) made Tawassul on many occasions through
Rasulullah [Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam] in his books, see for example
Al-Tuhfatul-Lateefah vol.1 pg.3, 17; al-Ibtihaaj bi azkaaril
musaafiril haaj

9. Allamah Muhammad ibn-ul-Jazri(RA) the famous Muhaddith and Master
of Qira'aat has mentioned that from amongst the Aadaab etiquettes of
dua is that one makes Tawassul with the Ambiyaa and the pious ones.
(Al-Hisnul Haseen)

10. Imaam Al-Shawkaani Al-Salafi(RA) has also permitted Tawassul.
(Tuhfatu-Zaakireen pg.50)

These are ten Different types of Ulama (i.e. some are Fuqahaa, some
Muhadditheen and some are Qurraa). All have either practised on
Tawassul or at least permitted it. And the list could go on….(refer
to Maqaalatul Kawthari pg.378-397). After contemplating on all that
was mentioned above, any person with sound intelligence would believe
without a shadow of doubt in the permissibility of this form of
Tawassul.

More so when one realizes that this remained the practise of the
Ummah for centuries. Allamah Taqee-ud-Deen Al-Subki(RA) and other
Muhadditheen have stated that Haafiz Ibn-Taimiyyah(RA) – who passed
away in the year 728 Hijri - was the first to refute the
permissibility of this form of Tawassul (Shifaa-us-Siqaam pg.293) In
fact, Abu-Abdillah Al-Tilmisani Al-Maaliki(RA) (a renown scholar of
the 7th century) has written a book concerning how this remained the
practise of the entire Ummah since its existence. (Refer Maqaalatul
Kawthari pg.397)

Lastly, we would like to draw your attention to the fact that the
above permissibility is in regard to one who asks Allah Ta'ala for a
particular need and in doing so, he uses some honourable personality
as his Waseela (means) without thinking or believing that the person
is being supplicated to or that he will fulfil his need. Yes, if one
asks directly from the deceased and he believes that the Anbiyaa
[alayhimus salaam] and the pious [rahimahumullah] independently
possess the power to provide, then this would be Shirk (polytheism)
because he is now ascribing partners to Allah in the quality
of `Providing'.

Many contemporaries have mixed both these forms up; a) asking
directly from the deceased and, b) asking Allah Alone, through the
medium of some deceased) and have passed one ruling of Shirk for both
forms. This is clearly a gross oversight on their path.

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Ml. Muhammad ibn Moulana Haroon Abasoomar
FACULTY OF SPECIALTY IN HADITH SCIENCES

That's what this topic is about.

Where did you get this article from. Please post the source so we know which website.

We do not need to ignore the Quran and Sunnah and follow some sheikh or imam. We need to follow the Quran and Sunnah first. If we can not find our answers there then we go to a reliable scholar, sheikh or Imam. Nowhere in the Quran, we are told that we should ask the deceased for help or build shrines. And same with Sunnah.

These shrines are mostly common in Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and India. You wont find much in the Arab world. And there is none in Saudi Arabia.

Quran is very clear about this:

Allah tells us that He is "closer to us than our own jugular vein" (Qaf: 16)
In every prayer we say the following:

"You alone do we worship, and from You alone we seek assistance." (Al-Fatihah: 5)



Also:
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) told his cousin, Ibn `Abbas, "…if you ask, ask of Allah, if you seek assistance, seek assistance from Allah."

Moreover, according to the Qur'an, the pagans of Makkah who called upon deities other than Allah are cited as saying, "we only worship them in order to bring us closer to Allah." (Az-Zumar: 3) And "They are our intercessors before Allah." (Yunus: 18) It is, therefore, safe to conclude that the practice of calling upon saints, dead or alive, is nothing but a form of shirk. No Muslim should ever contemplate such a practice, if he/she is keen on keeping his/her religion intact."


source: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546116

[Baktash]

baktash jan ur right that we can only ask ALLAH for anything not anyone else
but the people who go there they just make HAZRAT IMAM ALI waseta for Allah
like they bealive that we siiner and IMAM ALI was a great person who didnt make any sin or HAZRAT MUHAMMAD (PBUH) was not sinner so we make them waseta AND ASK Allah THAT FORGIVE ME BAROYE MUBARAK HAZRATS .
IM A SINNER BUT THEY R VERY CLOSE TO U SO BECOZ OF THEM BECOZ OF THE LOVE THAT U HAVE FOR THEM GIVE ME WHAT I WANT


That is not allowed. We are supposed to ask Allah directly. Where does in the Quran or Sunnah say that we should make "waseta" for Allah?

The Prophet peace be Upon Him taught us to ask Allah directly.

[Baktash]

Baktash
u just cant say the shrine should be demolished
what do u mean
thousand of people commit shrik every day ???? are they mad to go there for shirk
so if i agree with u it should be 1 vs 1000

In most of the Muslim World these practices do not exist. Forexample there are no shrines in Saudi Arabia. It is very common in Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and also India. Yes thousands of people either knowingly or unknowingly commit shirk when they go to the grave of Sainst and ask Allah to help them because of the dead saint who is buried there.

Some even kiss the grave and beg the dead person for help.

[Baktash]

Theres no reason a place with such historical significance needs to be demolished. Our retarded e-buddy Sulayman is right (for once :rolleyes: )

To remove that problem, education is a better option because there are many zeyarats across Afghanistan

This logic is like saying because there are too many criminals so we should legalize crime.

[Baktash]

Do you propose the demolition of just the shrine of Mazar-e Shareef or all shrines? There shouldn't be a distinction, according to your logic (not saying I agree, though).

All shrines

I am not saying we should disrespect those buried there. What i am saying is that in Islam when we bury someone we just dig a normal grave and bury them. We dont build concrete structures, huge buildings or shrines at the grave. So the huge structures should be demolished.

[Mr. Perfect]

Baktash ur somewhat right that muslims should only ask Allah SWT for help
but when it comes to demolition of shrines
see in one hand the shrines are very artistic and in my opiniion represents islamic art
on the other hand its not the best way to ask for mercy or forgiveness of Allah
And Allah SWT orders us to pray and ask whatever u want in prayers which not all of us do unlike the arab world

[Baktash]

But... you can ask from god by saying "BA BARAKATEY HAZRAT ALI(bless his soul).

many among us seem to think that it is a worthwhile practice to call upon deceased pious predecessors to intercede on our behalf. It is assumed that, since they are closer to Allah than we are, He will be more likely to answer their supplications than our own. It is a form of shirk, or associating partners with Allah, to think that anyone other than Allah is worthy of being called upon or prayed to. This, I believe, would be selling Allah short, assuming that our du`aa' (supplication) will not be answered even before we make it.

The fact that we expect Allah not to answer our du`aa' and that we have weak faith in Allah's ability to be merciful towards us, are reasons for Him not to answer our du`aa'! This is what sets the pious apart from the rest of us: They make du`aa' with full conviction that Allah will answer it and therefore Allah grants the pious what they seek or need, or He relieves a burden from them instead.
So, although saints in Islam do exist in an informal way, we should never fall into the practice of seeking the help of those whom Allah created and who will stand before Him to be judged. An excellent alternative is to ask those pious believers in our midst to make du`aa' for us during their lifetime, and not after they leave this world of ours. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) taught us that the angels pray to Allah for the sake of those who do the same for the sake of their brothers and sisters in life.

SOURCE: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE&cid=1148292923908

[Saeed]

Perfection is a definite impossibility, and there are much more dire problems, even on the grounds of theistic faith in the case of people in Afghanistan which need better addressing.

People don't know how to read and the Taliban (no this isn't a comment to jab at them, but just a random of the many instances) destroyed the buddhas, while Islam puts a much higher precedence on education. Demolition might be a topic of discussion should people take the many other steps to get to that level of enlightenment where they can distinguish between A & B. Till then, it's just fairy dreams; well unless some moron comes around and thinks it's highly prioritized thus chooses to be "Islamic" about it and forget the other steps.

Plus, the shrine is a mosque, more people go not to beg a grave, rather to exercise their faith. Depriving a good thing from others without fixing the "bad" isn't exactly a solution.

[~Nazigak~]

very nice info mazar shariif is so beautiful city i Love it... epscially those white brids infront of the Majid sharrifff.... so nice

[OhMyGod!]

This logic is like saying because there are too many criminals so we should legalize crime.

I'm saying there are lots of zeyarats across Afghanistan and so demolishing them isn't going to remove the root cause of this VERY SERIOUS PROBLEM! If Afghans dont go to Sakhi or any of the other zeyarats in Logar, Kandahar, Ghazni, etc, they'll attend those in the neighbouring countries like Pakistan and Iran. Thus the problem has not been dealt with. The best option is to educate society so generations to come do not engage in these gharar acts whilst preserving the historical significance of places like these.

:blink: :blink: I meant Afghanistan and not Australia in my original post:blink:

[Baktash]

ok I did not post this thread just for the sake of an argument, to cause any divisions or rile up any Muslim brother or sister. I just want to create awareness about true Islam. As some of You already mentioned, due to lack of proper understanding of Islam some people have mixed culture and traditions with it, thus distorting the real teachings of Islam.

Please do your own research based on Quran and Sunnah. I already did mine and came to the conclusion that this concept of shrines or calling upon Saints is NOT Islamic. Infact it is a huge sin to think that anyone other than Allah is worthy of being called upon. We are supposed to pray to Allah and seek His help directly. That is what the Quran says. And that's what the Prophet PBUH taught us. There is no where in the Quran or Sunnah that instructs us to go to shrines or call upon Saints.

[Toxic]

baktash is right tho.. about not asking help from shrines, but Allah.
But i don't think it shud be Demolished... rather educate people.

[farikhtay]

That's what this topic is about.

Where did you get this article from. Please post the source so we know which website.

We do not need to ignore the Quran and Sunnah and follow some sheikh or imam. We need to follow the Quran and Sunnah first. If we can not find our answers there then we go to a reliable scholar, sheikh or Imam. Nowhere in the Quran, we are told that we should ask the deceased for help or build shrines. And same with Sunnah.

These shrines are mostly common in Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan and India. You wont find much in the Arab world. And there is none in Saudi Arabia.

The biggest shrine is the shrine of our Prophet Muhammad Salallah aleihi wassallam and that's in Medina Sharif. Talking of more shrines, have you been to Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Yemen? And so, the list continues. Please don't talk of what you do not know of. You're just walking on fire.



Quran is very clear about this:

Allah tells us that He is "closer to us than our own jugular vein" (Qaf: 16)
In every prayer we say the following:

"You alone do we worship, and from You alone we seek assistance." (Al-Fatihah: 5)



Also:
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) told his cousin, Ibn `Abbas, "…if you ask, ask of Allah, if you seek assistance, seek assistance from Allah."

Moreover, according to the Qur'an, the pagans of Makkah who called upon deities other than Allah are cited as saying, "we only worship them in order to bring us closer to Allah." (Az-Zumar: 3) And "They are our intercessors before Allah." (Yunus: 18) It is, therefore, safe to conclude that the practice of calling upon saints, dead or alive, is nothing but a form of shirk. No Muslim should ever contemplate such a practice, if he/she is keen on keeping his/her religion intact."


source: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546116

You say that we do not have to follow Imam's or Sheikhs, but then you do taqlid to Islamonline.com. Talk about double standards! Plus, can an ignorant man interpret the Qur'an and the hadiths on his own? What do you say about these hadiths?

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

The Prophet [Peace be upon him] said "When (Allah's) slave is put in his grave and his companions return and he even hears their footsteps, two angels come to him and make him sit and ask". [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 456]

It is proven through Hadith that those that have veiled physically from this world can hear the speech of those visiting there graves:

Anas Ibn Malik reports that the Prophet ordered that the bodies of the idolaters slain on the day of Badr be thrown into a well whose interior was encased with stones, then he approached the well and began addressing the unbelievers by their names and fathers' names, saying: "O So-and-so son of So-and-so, and So-and-so son of So-and-so: it would have been easier if you had obeyed Allah and His Messenger. We have found what our Lord promised to be true; have you found what your Lord promised to be true?" To which `Umar said: "O Messenger of Allah, why speak to lifeless bodies?" And he replied: "By Him in whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, you do not hear my words better than they do, only they are unable to answer."

[SAHIH MUSLIM VOLUME 4 # 2873 in the book of Paradise Page# 338 (DARUL-KUTUB-AL-ILMIYYA)]

For further information: http://www.islamicinformationcentre.co.uk/alsunna2.htm#6

[Baktash]

The biggest shrine is the shrine of our Prophet Muhammad Salallah aleihi wassallam and that's in Medina Sharif. Talking of more shrines, have you been to Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Yemen? And so, the list continues. Please don't talk of what you do not know of. You're just walking on fire.



You say that we do not have to follow Imam's or Sheikhs, but then you do taqlid to Islamonline.com. Talk about double standards! Plus, can an ignorant man interpret the Qur'an and the hadiths on his own? What do you say about these hadiths?

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

The Prophet [Peace be upon him] said "When (Allah's) slave is put in his grave and his companions return and he even hears their footsteps, two angels come to him and make him sit and ask". [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23, Number 456]

It is proven through Hadith that those that have veiled physically from this world can hear the speech of those visiting there graves:

Anas Ibn Malik reports that the Prophet ordered that the bodies of the idolaters slain on the day of Badr be thrown into a well whose interior was encased with stones, then he approached the well and began addressing the unbelievers by their names and fathers' names, saying: "O So-and-so son of So-and-so, and So-and-so son of So-and-so: it would have been easier if you had obeyed Allah and His Messenger. We have found what our Lord promised to be true; have you found what your Lord promised to be true?" To which `Umar said: "O Messenger of Allah, why speak to lifeless bodies?" And he replied: "By Him in whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, you do not hear my words better than they do, only they are unable to answer."

[SAHIH MUSLIM VOLUME 4 # 2873 in the book of Paradise Page# 338 (DARUL-KUTUB-AL-ILMIYYA)]

For further information: http://www.islamicinformationcentre.co.uk/alsunna2.htm#6

I did quote from Islamonline but i quoted the Quranic verses. While you just quoted some Imams stating their personal opinions.

And what has those two Hadiths that you quoted anything to do with our discussion regarding shrines or calling upon Saints instead of Allah?


You said that biggest shrine is that of the Prophet PBUH in Medina. That's not a shrine. It is his burial site. People do not go there to call upon the Prophet PBUH. Saudi Arabia's religious police makes sure people who come there from countries such as Afghanistan do not kiss his grave or worship it.

And yes there are shrines in Iraq, Yemen etc which is wrong. Its roots are based on pagan traditions, not Quran.

[farikhtay]

I did quote from Islamonline but i quoted the Quranic verses. While you just quoted some Imams stating their personal opinions.

And what has those two Hadiths that you quoted anything to do with our discussion regarding shrines or calling upon Saints instead of Allah?


You said that biggest shrine is that of the Prophet PBUH in Medina. That's not a shrine. It is his burial site. People do not go there to call upon the Prophet PBUH. Saudi Arabia's religious police makes sure people who come there from countries such as Afghanistan do not kiss his grave or worship it.

And yes there are shrines in Iraq, Yemen etc which is wrong. Its roots are based on pagan traditions, not Quran.

Lol! You make me laugh! There's a mosque built over the Prophet Salallah aleihi wasallam's grave, whether you like it or not. And thousands of people visit the grave of the Prophet salallah aleihi wasallam daily.

Another thing is, I think your Islamonline.net likes Imam al Ghazzali (ra). Did you know that Imam al Ghazzali (http://www.ghazali.org/) would send his greetings to the Beloved Prophet salallah aleihi wasallam and would only leave his prayer mat after he receives a reply of his salams that he sent?

Al-Ahya, volume 1, ch#4-The Mysteries of Worship in Islam , Sub-chapter #3- Inward Stipulations For the Acts of the Heart


و أحضر في قلبك النبى عليه السلام و شخصه الكريم و قل السلام عليك ايها النبى و رحمة الله و بركته

As for the Witnessing, when you sit down for it, sit down in a proper manner, and state that all the performances of the Worship and good things, i.e. pure dispositions by which you seek access, are Allah's and likewise the dominion is Allah's, this being the meaning of the tahiyat, Greetings. Then cause the Prophet to be present to your heart, and also his noble personality and say, "Peace be upon you, O Prophet, and the mercy and blessing of Allah!" Let your expectation be firm that it will reach him, and that will return to you one more perfect than it.


Okay I'll quote some Quranic verses to, just to make you happy. The sad thing is, you didn't even bother clicking the link I gave you. Anyway here's a quote from the site:

Proof from the Qur'an

Allah Most High says in the Holy Qur'an:

"O you who Believe! Do your duties to Allah and fear Him; seek the means of approach unto him, and strive (with might and main) in His cause so that you may prosper [Sura Ma'ida, verse 35]

In this verse, Allah has informed us to seek ways of obtaining wasila, a means to approach Him. Our Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) is our wasila in this world and the hereafter.

Allah Most High says in the Holy Qur'an:

"Before that, they were asking for victory over the infidels by means of the same Prophet"

[Sura Baqara, verse 89]

Imam Tabari, Hafiz ibn al-Qayyim, Hafiz ibn Kathir and Qadi Shawkani write that before the birth of the Messenger of Allah (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) the Jews would make the Prophet a wasila in their supplications, when asking Allah to defeat their enemies in battle.

[Tafsir Ibn Jareer, Tafsir Ibn Kathir & Tafsir Fath ul-Qadir Shawkani, Ibn al-Qayyim, Hadaya-tul-Hayara, under Sura Baqara, page 89 and 95]

Some may object to this by saying that this was an act of the Jews, hence it cannot be used as evidence for Muslims. However, Allah has mentioned this event in the Qur'an and did not condemn this, therefore demonstrating its permissibility.

And We have not sent any messenger, but that he should be obeyed by Allah's will. And if when they do injustice unto their souls, then O beloved! They should come to you and then beg forgiveness of Allah and the messenger should intercede for them then surely, they would find Allah Most Relenting, Merciful. [ Surah an Nisa : 64]

And those who have been slain in the way of Allah never think of them as dead; but they are alive with their Lord, get their subsistence."(Kanz-ul-Iman translation of the Quran 3.169)

[Baktash]

Allah Most High says in the Holy Qur'an:

"O you who Believe! Do your duties to Allah and fear Him; seek the means of approach unto him, and strive (with might and main) in His cause so that you may prosper [Sura Ma'ida, verse 35]

In this verse, Allah has informed us to seek ways of obtaining wasila, a means to approach Him. Our Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) is our wasila in this world and the hereafter.

Do you know what a huge sin it is to interpret the Quran in a wrong way? People who say that calling upon Saints is Islamic usually interpret Quran the way it suits them. They always ignore the Quran and Sunnah in general just focus on a few verses and interpret them incorrectly.

This verse in no way tells us that anyone other than Allah is worth calling upon.

Here is the real explanation:

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَابْتَغُوا إِلَيْهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ وَجَاهِدُوا فِي سَبِيلِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ 5:35
(5:35) Believers! Fear Allah and seek the means to come near to Him, *58 and strive hard in His way; *59 maybe you will attain true success.
*58. People are urged to solicit all means which might bring them close to God and enable them to please Him.
*59. The English imperative 'strive hard' does not do full justice to the actual word used in the Qur'an: jahidu. The verbal form mujahadah signifies and carries the nuance of doing something in defiance of, or in opposition to someone. The true sense of the Qur'anic injunction 'strive hard' in the way of Allah is that the Muslims ought to use all their strength and engage in vigorous struggle against those forces which either forcefully prevent them from living in obedience to God or force them to live in obedience to others than God. It is this struggle which is likely to lead man to his true success and bring him to a close relationship with God.
This verse directs the believer to engage in a ceaseless, multifrontal struggle. On one side is the accursed Satan with his horde. Then comes the animal spirit of man, with its defiant and refractory desires. Then there are many men who have turned away from God, but with whom one is linked by social, cultural and economic ties. Then there are false religious, cultural and social systems which rest on rebellion against God and which force man to worship falsehood rather than Truth. These rebellious forces use different means to achieve their end, but those ends are always the same - to make men serve them rather than God. But man's true progress and his attainment of close communion with God depends entirely on his total obedience to God, on his serving God unreservedly in the inner as well as in the external aspects of his life. He cannot achieve this objective without engaging in simultaneous combat with all the forces which are defiant and rebellious towards God, carrying on an unceasing struggle against them and trampling down all obstructions to his advancement along God's path.

source: Tafheem ul Quran

IF "seek the means" meant calling upon Saints or the Prophet PBUH instead of directly seeking Allah's help then why does

Allah tells us that He is "closer to us than our own jugular vein" (Qaf: 16)
In every prayer we say the following:

"You alone do we worship, and from You alone we seek assistance." (Al-Fatihah: 5)



Also:
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) told his cousin, Ibn `Abbas, "…if you ask, ask of Allah, if you seek assistance, seek assistance from Allah."

Moreover, according to the Qur'an, the pagans of Makkah who called upon deities other than Allah are cited as saying, "we only worship them in order to bring us closer to Allah." (Az-Zumar: 3) And "They are our intercessors before Allah." (Yunus: 18)


You seem to have confused Tawassel with shirk;

Here is explanation of the Tawassel and what forms of it are shirk:


This issue is one of the oldest debated issues that caused great division among Muslims to the extent that some scholars gave more concern to this matter than they did with Jihad, even during the time when Islam and Muslims were subject to many anti-Islamic campaigns staged by the enemies of Allah. While these enemies were amending the principles of Shari`ah and changing Muslims’ lifestyle, the latter were busy with differences and disputation.

However, it seems useful to sum up the following points from the book Dustur al-Wahdah ath-Thaqafiyyah (The Constitution of Cultural Unity) with regard to this issue:

"First, tawassul or invoking Allah the Most High, through His Being (Dhat) and Most Beautiful Names made in such way is mentioned in the following hadiths:

1. The hadith which reads: “O Allah! I implore You by virtue of Your being Allah, the One, Who has no partner, the Eternal, Absolute, Who begetteth not, nor is He begotten, and like unto Whom there is none.”

2. The Prophetic supplication for memorizing the Qur’an, “O Allah! I beseech You by virtue of Your Glory and by the Light of Your Face to let me keep Your Book by heart as You have taught me.”

3. The supplication, “O Allah! I seek refuge with Your pleasure from Your wrath and with Your pardon from Your punishment.”

Undoubtedly, there is no harm in such forms of tawassul.

Second, tawassul of a person to Allah, the Most High through showing obedience to Him as well as through his own good deeds which are done only for His sake. This meaning is involved in the verse that reads, “O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive (with might and main) in His cause: that ye may prosper.” (Al-Ma’idah: 35)

There is also a long Hadith speaking about three men who were trapped in a cave by a great stone, and nothing saved them but their supplications to Allah, each using a means through his best deed. This comes in accordance with the Hadith, “Get to know Allah in prosperity and He will know you in adversity.”

Third, tawassul through the righteous people’s supplications and the supplications of Muslims, one for the other, has been established since the time of Prophet Nuh (peace and blessings be upon him) who supplicated to Allah saying, “O Lord! Forgive me, my parents, all who enter my house in Faith, and (all) believing men and believing women: and to the wrong–doers grant Thou no increase but in Perdition!” (Nuh: 28)

Such supplication is recommended and rewarded by Allah, whether it is said in the presence of the one on whose behalf it is made or in his absence. The angels and the bearers of the Throne continuously supplicate: “Our Lord! Thou embraced all things in Mercy and Knowledge, forgive, then, those who turn in repentance, and follow Thy Path; and preserve them from the Chastisement of the Blazing Fire!” (Ghafir: 7)

Late Muslims supplicate for the sake of the early Muslims as a token of the unity of believers in their being all servants of Allah regardless of difference in time and place: “And those who came after them say, ‘Our Lord! Forgive us, and our brethren who came before us into the Faith, and leave not, in our hearts, rancour (or sense of injury) against those who have believed.” (Al-Hashr: 10)

The Muslim Ummah supplicates for the sake of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him) after prayer and adhan out of their love and reverence to him.

The Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) used to ask the Messenger of Allah to supplicate to Allah to bring them rain. After the death of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) they asked Al-`Abbas, the Prophet’s uncle, to supplicate to Allah to give them rain due to his relation to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

In Islam, there is nothing wrong in asking your righteous Muslim brother to supplicate to Allah on your behalf.

Fourth, tawassul through the person of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and Allah’s love to him; concerning the ruling of this form of tawassul, I have found two opinions:

i) There is nothing related in this concern and the supplications mentioned in the Glorious Qur’an and the Sunnah involve direct invocation to Allah. Therefore, it is more proper that we follow this direct style.

ii) Supplication to Allah through the person of Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was related in the narration which states that a blind man sought intercession of the Prophet with his Lord on his behalf in a supplication that he had learned from the Prophet, or from others, and when he said that supplication his sight was restored. Those who state that opinion add that this form of tawassul was reported in more than ten ways (of transmission), and this is a testimony on its behalf, although it was not narrated in the two Sahihs of al-Bukhari and Muslim.

However, the two parties disputed to the extent that they were about to fall into a prolonged rupture of relations. Both parties committed faults. For example, one of them accused the other of polytheism, and the latter described the former as hating the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). This resulted in more division among them. The issue became worse when the second sect drew analogy between the person of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and others whom they thought to be righteous and awliya’ (saints). They, moreover, neglected the authenticated supplications and indulged in formulas of supplications about which there is more than one opinion.

These people committed a mistake when they drew analogy between the person of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and others. Analogy should not be applied to acts of worship. They should have mainly used what is proven as authentic in the Qur’an and the Sunnah.

As for those who depict Muslims with polytheism, they should refrain from this and stop judging people depending only on mere ill thinking.

Fifth, tawassul through asking those who are close to Allah, as to ask a dead Prophet or a wali at his grave to fulfill one’s request. This form of tawassul is unanimously rejected in Islam, for it is a form of polytheism. What prevents those who commit this heinous act from asking Allah, Who is nearer to them than their jugular veins, and Who is the only One Who can fulfill all their requests?

However, it seems that the difference between those who regard tawassul through the person of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) as permissible and those who do not, is like the difference between two religions. In their reactions to this issue, some scholars delivered incorrect judgments."
source: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544334


Is it permissible to call upon the Prophet?
It is to be stressed that when a Muslim prays he asks none but Allah and when he seeks help, he seeks the help of Allah alone. We pray to Allah, not to any creature, including the Prophets and Messengers of Allah. There is no authentic hadith which teaches that Muslims should pray with the words "Ya Muhammad" and none of the Prophet's Companions did so. So we should follow in their steps.

In his response to the question in point, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America, states:

"The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) himself told us in a very authentic hadith that is reported by `Abdullah ibn `Abbas (may Allah be pleased with him), "When you ask something, you ask in the name of Allah and when you seek help, you seek help of Allah. Know that if the people were to gather together to benefit you with anything it would benefit you only with something that Allah had already prescribed for you and that if they gathered together to harm you with something, they would harm you only with something Allah had already prescribed for you." So the Sunnah is that we pray to Allah (Mighty and Exalted be He).

Tawassul means that in our du`a', we mention also the salat and salam (seek peace and blessings) for the Prophet Muhammad, or we show our love and our faith in Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), so in this way our prayer becomes more acceptable to Allah, but we must always pray to Allah, not to any creature, including the Prophets and Messengers of Allah. There is no authentic hadith which teaches that Muslims should pray with the words, "Ya Muhammad", and the Companions of the Prophet also did not do that and we should follow the way of our Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and his Companions in our prayers. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was the last and the final Messenger of Allah. He is the beloved of Allah (Habibullah). We believe in him, honor him, respect him and love him, but we do not worship him or come to Allah through him."
source: http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503543502




Allah Most High says in the Holy Qur'an:

"Before that, they were asking for victory over the infidels by means of the same Prophet"

[Sura Baqara, verse 89]

Imam Tabari, Hafiz ibn al-Qayyim, Hafiz ibn Kathir and Qadi Shawkani write that before the birth of the Messenger of Allah (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) the Jews would make the Prophet a wasila in their supplications, when asking Allah to defeat their enemies in battle.

[Tafsir Ibn Jareer, Tafsir Ibn Kathir & Tafsir Fath ul-Qadir Shawkani, Ibn al-Qayyim, Hadaya-tul-Hayara, under Sura Baqara, page 89 and 95]

Some may object to this by saying that this was an act of the Jews, hence it cannot be used as evidence for Muslims. However, Allah has mentioned this event in the Qur'an and did not condemn this, therefore demonstrating its permissibility.

And We have not sent any messenger, but that he should be obeyed by Allah's will. And if when they do injustice unto their souls, then O beloved! They should come to you and then beg forgiveness of Allah and the messenger should intercede for them then surely, they would find Allah Most Relenting, Merciful. [ Surah an Nisa : 64]

And those who have been slain in the way of Allah never think of them as dead; but they are alive with their Lord, get their subsistence."(Kanz-ul-Iman translation of the Quran 3.169)


How do these other verses mean that calling upon saints is permissible in Islam?


Anyways, believe in whatever you want. But please do not distort the message of true Islam. Which is worshipping Allah directly and seeking Allah's help DIRECTLY, NOT through another dead or alive person.

[Elixir]

Baktash is right.
Let's kill Najeem for singing "Bya ke Kabul Jan Berem", for in the beginning of his song he asks Ali to help him. Listen to it, you will discover a mushrik.

Same rule should follow for all those Afghan singers who sung for Ali or Prophet Muhmmad asking for help.

Do it Baktash! Announce the Fatwa, brother.

[Baktash]

Baktash is right.
Let's kill Najeem for singing "Bya ke Kabul Jan Berem", for in the beginning of his song he asks Ali to help him. Listen to it, you will discover a mushrik.

Same rule should follow for all those Afghan singers who sung for Ali or Prophet Muhmmad asking for help.

Do it Baktash! Announce the Fatwa, brother.

When we are talking about religion, please take your sarcasm elsewhere.

Maybe Najeem does not know that it is shirk to call upon anyone else other than Allah.

[Pashto Dreamer]

I have to agree with Bakhtash... going to shrines is wrong.... the dead person can not help themselves so how can they help u?

[breeze]

I wanted to add here that using the word 'ya' along anyone's name except Allah is haram. i always hear some ppl say 'ya Ali ' or have seen ppl write ' ya Mohamad' but they should know its haram.

[farikhtay]

And so he replies, following Islamonline.net yet again. No one would know better about misinterpreting the Qur'an than those people who run that website. I will however post a refutation to your article that you posted from a scholar with more integrity than the Wahhabis/Najdis/Kharijites that run that website.

[Pashto Dreamer]

And so he replies, following Islamonline.net yet again. No one would know better about misinterpreting the Qur'an than those people who run that website. I will however post a refutation to your article that you posted from a scholar with more integrity than the Wahhabis/Najdis/Kharijites that run that website.

it seems any1 who wishes to avoid asking dead ppl 4 help and going to massive shrines, preferring instead to follow and maintain the law of God which was given to us through prophet Muhammad (p.b.u.h) which is embodied in quran and sunnah which state that u should ask God for help and not build massive structures over the grave like the previous nations used to do with their prophets and holy men/women is automatticaly labelled Wahabbi etc...... all I can say is plz grow up!

[Farhad]

I wanted to add here that using the word 'ya' along anyone's name except Allah is haram. i always hear some ppl say 'ya Ali ' or have seen ppl write ' ya Mohamad' but they should know its haram.

This is not true...Prove it...


Ya means = O'


Ya Al'lah = O' Al'lah (swt).....help me


Ya Muhammad = O' Muhammad(saw).....where are you going ?


Ya Ali = O' Ali (as) ........You are the gate of City of Knowledge

[breeze]

This is not true...Prove it...


Ya means = O'


Ya Al'lah = O' Al'lah (swt).....help me


Ya Muhammad = O' Muhammad(saw).....where are you going ?


Ya Ali = O' Ali (as) ........You are the gate of City of Knowledge

I do not know the exact book but i correctly remember reading this in one of my islamic classes back in pakistan. ppl say' ya Ali madadad' whcih is shirk. or even pray and say 'Ya Mohamad do this or that for me'. u can directly ask Allah swt no one else. i dont have the time to find any link u can go ahead and find and then post it here. thanx

[Baktash]

And so he replies, following Islamonline.net yet again. No one would know better about misinterpreting the Qur'an than those people who run that website. I will however post a refutation to your article that you posted from a scholar with more integrity than the Wahhabis/Najdis/Kharijites that run that website.

Dear Sister, our Muslim brothers who operate that website have never claimed to belong to any sects. That website is not only one of the most credible Islamic websites but also one of the most viewed Islamic site on the net (according to Alexa web rankings). So let's not label them with names. Let's judge their actions. And none of their actions/writings promote sectariansim.

If you look at my first post, I never quoted anything from anyother website. It was later that I quoted some Quranic verses. But let's forget Islamonline.net and focus on the Quran and Sunnah. Only verse No. 5 of Surah Fatiha is enough to prove that it is against Islam to call upon Saints, Prophets Peace Be Upon them all. "You alone do we worship, and from You alone we seek assistance." (Al-Fatihah: 5)
I have utmost respect for all the Companians of the Prophet, Imams and all pious people...may Allah be pleased with them all. But respect does not mean that we make them intermediary between us and Allah. Everyone, male or female, can directly approach God without any intermediary of a prophet, saint or priest.

Almighty Allah tells us in the Quran: (We verily created man and We know what his soul whispereth to him, and We are nearer to him than his jugular vein.) (Qaf 50: 16)

(When My servants ask you about Me, tell them I am nigh, ready to answer the prayer of the suppliant when he prays to Me; therefore let them respond to Me and believe in Me, that they may walk in the right way.) (Al-Baqarah: 186)


Finally, let's work fo the unity of all Muslims and do not identify ourselves as sects. We are all Muslim. My parents claimed that they were Sunni. But I say that I am ONLY Muslim. There shouldnt be such thing as Sunni,Shia,Wahabi or something else.

Thanks sister for reading. May God bless us all.

[Baktash]

This is not true...Prove it...


Ya means = O'


Ya Al'lah = O' Al'lah (swt).....help me


Ya Muhammad = O' Muhammad(saw).....where are you going ?


Ya Ali = O' Ali (as) ........You are the gate of City of Knowledge


The question is why would someone say so.

When we say Ya Allah that's cuz Allah can hear us.

If we say Ya Muhammad, the prophet peace be upon Him can not hear us. We worship Almighty Allah, not Muhammad PBUH. So there is no point in saying Ya Mohmmad. When we are talking about the Prophet. We should just say Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him. That's it.

Breeze is right. Some people, instead of asking Allah's help ask the Prophet's help by saying Ya Muhammad. Or seek Hadhrat Ali's help (May Allah be pleased with Him) by saying Ya Ali. That is shirk if they do so knowingly. We only worship Allah and only seek His help. Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him NEVER taught us to say "Ya Muhammad"


This is what happened with Christians. Jesus Peace Be Upon Him taught them to Worship Allah but they gradually started worshipping Jesus PBUH instead of Allah.

[Pashto Dreamer]

you can only say ya to some1`if they are alive and in front of u..... therfore in this context you can only say ya Allah

[breeze]

you can only say ya to some1`if they are alive and in front of u..... therfore in this context you can only say ya Allah

what u r refering to is hey like hey farzana. Im talking about 'ya'. When we ask Allah for something we say for example: ' Ya Allah forgive my sins' or ask for something. You can only use 'Ya' with Allah's name.

[Farhad]

The question is why would someone say so.

When we say Ya Allah that's cuz Allah can hear us.

If we say Ya Muhammad, the prophet peace be upon Him can not hear us. We worship Almighty Allah, not Muhammad PBUH. So there is no point in saying Ya Mohmmad. When we are talking about the Prophet. We should just say Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him. That's it.

Breeze is right. Some people, instead of asking Allah's help ask the Prophet's help by saying Ya Muhammad. Or seek Hadhrat Ali's help (May Allah be pleased with Him) by saying Ya Ali. That is shirk if they do so knowingly. We only worship Allah and only seek His help. Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him NEVER taught us to say "Ya Muhammad"


This is what happened with Christians. Jesus Peace Be Upon Him taught them to Worship Allah but they gradually started worshipping Jesus PBUH instead of Allah.

Remember this Nashid ? I sang it all the time..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHKtxe4J5FU


Ya nabi Salam Alaika, Ya rasul salam alaika
Ya habib Salam Alaika, salawatullah alaika

This is what I meant when to say "Ya Muhammad" but not for going to the grave and beg for mercy...

[Baktash]

Remember this Nashid ? I sang it all the time..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHKtxe4J5FU


Ya nabi Salam Alaika, Ya rasul salam alaika
Ya habib Salam Alaika, salawatullah alaika

This is what I meant when to say "Ya Muhammad" but not for going to the grave and beg for mercy...

I am not quite clear on this issue. I will strive to find out the answe. Or let's see if someone else has more knowledge about it and he/she can enlighten us. If possible, please post the translation of that nashid so we know what it means.

[farikhtay]

anyways, believe in whatever you want. But please do not distort the message of true Islam. Which is worshipping Allah directly and seeking Allah's help DIRECTLY, NOT through another dead or alive person.
[/B]

Nobody worships God through saints. You don't even know what you're talking about yet you're arguing about it? The irony !

The Qur'an clearly says this:

And those who have been slain in the way of Allah never think of them as dead; but they are alive with their Lord, get their subsistence."(Kanz-ul-Iman translation of the Quran 3.169)

Now think for one moment, are martyrs higher than the saints and the Prophets alaihimussalam? If the traditional scholars have all agreed upon this stance, what do you disagree and do taqlid of islamonline ?



When we say Ya Allah that's cuz Allah can hear us.

If we say Ya Muhammad, the prophet peace be upon Him can not hear us. We worship Almighty Allah, not Muhammad PBUH. So there is no point in saying Ya Mohmmad. When we are talking about the Prophet. We should just say Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him. That's it.

Breeze is right. Some people, instead of asking Allah's help ask the Prophet's help by saying Ya Muhammad. Or seek Hadhrat Ali's help (May Allah be pleased with Him) by saying Ya Ali. That is shirk if they do so knowingly. We only worship Allah and only seek His help. Muhammad Peace Be Upon Him NEVER taught us to say "Ya Muhammad"


This is what happened with Christians. Jesus Peace Be Upon Him taught them to Worship Allah but they gradually started worshipping Jesus PBUH instead of Allah.


You know it's amazing to see these people who deny that Rasool Allah Salallah aleihi wasallam is unable to hear us. Yet if asked if the Shaitaan can? They will handsomely agree to it. :huh:

We know 2 instances from Quran where a sajda is being made to a ghair Allah.

1. All the angels prostrating before Hazrat Adam Alaihi Salam
2. The stars prostrating before Hazrat Yusaf Aleihi Salam

Isn't that shirk?

How did iblees become shaitaan?

He refused to bow down before Hazrat Adam Aleihi Salam

What was his stance?

How can I perform sajda to anybody besides Allah and also that he thought he was superior.

So you may chant Allah and worship Him all you like but if you don't recognise the Prophet's Salallah aleihi wassalam status that Allah Has Granted him then all that is useless.

--------------------------

1. Imam Zayn-ul-‘Ābidīn


Imam Zayn-ul-‘Ābidīn supplicates to the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) for help and intercession in these words:

O mercy of the worlds! You are the intercessor for the sinners.
On account of your infinite generosity, mercy and magnanimity, intercede for us on the Day of Judgement.
O, who has come to all the worlds as a source of mercy! Help Zayn-ul-‘Ābidīn.
Who is confined by the party of the oppressors (and beseeches your help).


2. Imam Mālik


Imam Mālik’s prominence as one of the four jurists of Islam is well-established. Once caliph Abū Ja‘far Mansūr visited Medina and he asked Imam Mālik: “While supplicating, should I turn my face to the prayer niche [and turn my back to the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)] or should I turn my face to the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) (and turn my back to the prayer niche)?” On this interrogation, Imam Mālik replied: “(O caliph!) Why do you turn your face from the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), as he is the source of mediation for you and for your ancestor Adam (عليه السلام) on the Day of Judgement? Rather you should (pray and supplicate by) turning towards the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and seek his intercession so that he intercedes for you before Allah on the Day of Judgement. Allah has declared:

(O beloved!) And if they had come to you, when they had wronged their souls, and asked forgiveness of Allah, and the Messenger also had asked forgiveness for them, they (on the basis of this means and intercession) would have surely found Allah the Granter of repentance, exteremely Merciful.[1]


This incident has been narrated by Qādī ‘Iyād in his ash-Shifā (2:596) with a sound chain of transmission. Besides, it has been related by a number of other traditionists of impeccable credibility. Subkī in Shifā’-us-siqām fī ziyārat khayr-il-anām, Samhūdī in Khulāsat-ul-wafā, Qastallānī in al-Mawāhib-ul-laduniyyah, Ibn Jamā‘ah in Hidāyat-us-sālik and Ibn Hajar Haythamī in al-Jawhar-ul-munazzam.

3. Imam Qurtubī


He has mentioned intermediation in the interpretation of the verse 64 of surah an-Nisā’ in his al-Jāmi‘ li-ahkām-il-Qur’ān (5:265-6).[2]




4. Imam Hākim


In his book al-Mustadrak (2:615) he has mentioned the tradition relating to Adam’s intermediation through the holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and has pronounced it as sound.[3]

5. Imam Bayhaqī


He has related in his book Dalā’il-un-nubuwwah (5:489) the tradition in which Adam (عليه السلام) relied on the mediation of the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم). He has painstakingly avoided reference to any disconfirmed (mawdū‘) tradition in his book.[4]

Imam Bayhaqī in his book Dalā’il-un-nubuwwah (6:166-7), has also recorded a tradition attributed to ‘Uthmān bin Hunayf.[5] In addition, in the same book (p.147) and in as-Sunan-ul-kubrā (3:352) he has also narrated the incident of ‘Umar bin al-Khattāb seeking ‘Abbās’s mediation for rain.[6]




6. Qādī ‘Iyād


He has, in his book, ash-Shifā (1:227-8) narrated Adam’s intermediation through the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) with the help of sound and famous traditions.[7] In addition, in the chapters on ‘visiting the Prophet’s grave,’ ‘virtues and merits of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)’ and in many other chapters in his book he has referred to the qualities and attributes of the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم).

7. Imam Nawawī


Imam Nawawī in the sixth chapter of his book al-Īdāh has mentioned the issue of intermediation.[8] Besides, he has recorded in al-Adhkār a number of supplications which prove the reality of intermediation.[9]




8. Ibn Taymiyyah


Ibn Taymiyyah in his book Qā‘idah jalīlah fit-tawassul wal-wasīlah, commenting on the Qur’ānic verse:

O believers! Fear Allah and seek means (of approach to) His (presence and to His nearness and accessibility).[10]


writes:

“Offering mediation in the court of Allah springs from one’s faith in the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) and in his obedience. And it is by virtue of this obedience and faith that it is obligatory for every believer under any circumstances, outwardly or inwardly, during and after the Prophet’s life, and during his presence or absence. Once this condition is laid down, it cannot be voluntarily discontinued by any person on any excuse or pretext. And the only way to escape the divine wrath and punishment is to make the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) a means of salvation by obeying him and by reposing his trust in him, because the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is the owner of the highest station of distinction in Paradise and he is the intercessor for his followers and the former and the latter ones will envy his position. His stature is the highest in the court of Allah and he is the greatest among the intercessors. Allah has declared about Mūsā (عليه السلام):

And with Allah, he was highly dignified (and respectable).[11]


And about ‘Īsā (عليه السلام) Allah has declared:

He will enjoy respect and status (both) in this world and the Hereafter.[12]


“While the Holy Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) is blessed with the highest distinction among the prophets, his supplication and intercession will benefit only the person for whom he will pray and intercede. When he prays and intercedes for a person, he will make his prayer and intercession a source of mediation in the presence of Allah, as was the practice of the Companions.”[13]


Once he was questioned whether it was valid or invalid to depend on the mediation of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), he replied:

“All praise for Allah! By the consensus of the Muslims it is quite valid and proper to rely on the means of faith in the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), his obedience, his remembrance, his supplication and intercession, similarly his deeds and the deeds of his followers, which they have performed in obedience to the Prophet’s commands. And the Companions used to depend on his mediation during his life on earth and after his death, they depended on the mediation of his uncle, ‘Abbās as they used to rely on his mediation during his earthly life.”[14]


9. Subkī


He has discussed at length the question of intermediation in his book Shifā’-us-siqām fī ziyārat khayr-il-anām and has proved its relevance as a vibrant concept in Islam, as we have mentioned at different places in the course of the book.

10. Imam Ibn Kathīr


Imam Ibn Kathīr has commented on verse 64 of surah an-Nisā’ in his book Tafsīr-ul-Qur’ān al-‘azīm (1:519-20) and raised the issue of intermediation. He has not levelled any objection against ‘Utbī’s tradition in which a Bedouin supplicates at the Prophet’s tomb for his intercession.[15] In his book al-Bidāyah wan-nihāyah (1:131; 2:291-2) he has related the event of Adam’s reliance on the Prophet’s mediation and expressed no reservations about the tradition.[16] Imam Ibn Kathīr has related in al-Bidāyah wan-nihāyah (5:167) the episode of the man who visits the Prophet’s grave and prays for rain through his means and he has pronounced this tradition quite sound.[17] In addition, he has also related in the same book (5:30) that during the battle of Yamāmah, the battle-cry of the Muslims was yā Muhammadāh (O Muhammad! Help us).[18]

11. Ibn Hajar ‘Asqalānī


He has in his books al-Isābah fī tamyīz-is-sahābah (3:484) and Fath-ul-bārī (2:495-6) narrated the incident of the man who visited the Prophet’s grave for rain through his mediation.[19]

12. ‘Abd-ur-Rahmān Jāmī


He enjoys enviable reputation in the fields of poetry, mysticism, philosophy and tradition. Besides, his burning and yearning love for the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) bubbles up in his verses. He expresses his faith in intermediation in these words:

It was the manifestation of the blessing of the Prophet’s name that Adam (عليه السلام) received pardon and Nūh was saved from the devastating impact of the tempest.


13. Suyūtī


He has related the tradition of Adam’s intermediation in ad-Durr-ul-manthūr (1:58) and al-Khasā’is-ul-kubrā (1:6) in addition to narrating it in ar-Riyād-ul-anīqah fī sharh asmā’ khayr-il-khalīqah where he spells out its soundness by endorsing the view expressed by Bayhaqī.[20]

14. Imam Qastallānī


The qualities and accomplishments of a special group of saints are recorded in the traditions. The blessing of their supplication causes rain and brings victory and triumph to the Muslims. Qastallānī’s views about them are given below:

When ordinary people fall into trouble, first of all, the Heralds supplicate for them, then turn by turn the Nobility, Substitutes, the righteous and the ministers (supplicate for them). If their supplication is granted, well and good, otherwise, the saint of the highest rank, ghawth (who is all the time engrossed in Allah’s worship,) supplicates for them, and before he winds it up, his prayer is granted. (This is Allah’s special blessing on them.)[21]


Qastallānī has also mentioned intermediation in the beginning of al-Mawāhib-ul-laduniyyah.[22]


So unless if you're claiming to be greater than these above men (check the list and you will see Islamonline's beloved Ibn Taymiyyah), then what you say may hold some weight.

[farikhtay]

How do you answer for the most visited shrine/mosque in the world? We know the Holy Shrine of the Holy Prophet (sawas) is located inside Masjid Nabawi. So can anyone answer for this? Or are they better Muslims than the sahabahs ?

[Pashto Dreamer]

visiting graves is fine but building massive structures over them and asking the dead for help is WRONG!
btw ya translates to oh as in oh so and so

[Mehr]

well well
im member who is visiting after one year i guess more than that
but interesting topic is this bro baktash right

well bro what do u know really about mazar-e-sharif sometimes we only talk about something that we really dont know about it


im sorry that i dont have the book right now with me to write ur the date when Azrat Ali's body moved to afghanistan. By request of imam Jafer sadiq they move Azarat Ali to afghanistan.
coz All muslims were worried that Hab basis would do something not good with his shiren that fore they requested from afghans as Iman Azam was AFghan and he made the plan to move Azrat Ali body to afghanistan in place that no one get about it and his shirn in Iraq be only to show.

this plan get success full and body of Azrat Ali moved in Afghan in tapi khiran which is now mazari sharif city and hide it right there.

until 9th century that all scholars of Temori kindom saw same dream not one person 40 ppl and they come to the place where they see in dream and fromt here they found a bier when they opened it have found a body which was fresh and complitly as a life person with a note which was writen his whole family name in dari we says shagara

aftar that they made a shirn there until changiz khan ruled but before he come to that area ppl hide the shirn once again
until in 15th century sultan Husain Bahiqra find out the shirn and bulid it once again as u can see it now
and there is a peom of Jami for it which means really he is there and im not speaking from the stories that i heard from my elders its from history book of shirn in its labiray which is writen i guess 15th century in opening of his bier for second time.

and there is alot of things which make u sure that really his shirn is not bulited for historical place or just like that

and about u said why ppl didnt made for other friends of Azrat Mohamad shirn i must say others and he is have the differents 1st he was 1st kid who accpeted Isalm, 2nd his cousin, 3rd his son in law, and 4th gr8 man in Islam History the only person who have born in khani Kahba and who Allah called Asad u allah.

and about to ask from Allah sure bro who go there in shirn no one ask frm Azrat ALi all believe to ask only from Allah and he only can give u something but u might not forget that the ppl who are close to Allah are not everyone not simple ppl as me or u there was and there is gr8 ppl who Allah give simple place for them which are Awlia o Anbia

everyone depend on something as human we need each other even we need support of things

and to pass our wish or request which we need so we need that support coz there is alot of ppl who ask at a time and who knows our wish come true for support which we can give is
Duroti sharif which is wing for dua.

or ask through ppl who are dear to Allah as Anbia and Awlia and Azrat Ali wasnt common man he had and he have really special place from Allah and we must to accpet it so coz of that
ppl just ask Allah that accpet our wish or request coz of ur dearest ones who u love most .

or we says That Azrat Ali u can reach Allah even 1000 times faster than us and he would say no to u coz ur dear to Allah so plz take my request to Allah.

so simply we make our dua to Allah but pass it through him to Allah or any other gr8 person in Islam if u mean that its not good enough to go to shirn so u might say the same that ppl may not go to visit Mahdian e monawara



and if u mind why they made shirn for him so can i ask u something have u ever been to any grave yard in afghanistan

if ur grand pa past 40 years ago u might not find his grave as much u look for it coz by the time it get destroy

so to make shirn for it means to safe it from passage of time and place where ppl dont forget as well where they can come together and celebrate their religious events u might know its not only shirn as well masjid
which is only big Mosque in Mazar-e-sharif city.


so its need to make Mosque and why not to make it somewhere that we could safe our history as well place for pray.

im sorry for my bad english but i hope u could get what i meant

[Mehr]

hahaha one thing funny is that u think he is death even who count prophets and Gr8 men who we call Awlia death so he or she would be in count on non muslims